this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2026
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[–] eicker@lemmy.world 217 points 1 week ago (14 children)

Turns out the commute, fluorescent lighting, constant interruptions and performative desk sitting weren’t secretly essential ingredients for human happiness after all. Shocking. Next study: 7,700 managers discover that seeing someone in a chair is not actually a productivity metric.

[–] ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world 75 points 1 week ago (2 children)

And 7,600 of them discover that aside from micromanaging and degrading the well-being of their employees, they have no other substantive job duties, and their employment is completely pointless.

[–] Wfh@lemmy.zip 58 points 1 week ago (9 children)

I became a manager about a year ago. Now that I'm part of the "inner circle", I can see firsthand what I suspected for the past 20 years.

There are 2 types of managers.

There are cunts bosses who treat their employees as property for their personal gain and advancement. They demand productivity at all costs (see: LLM-cogsuckers), punish for mistakes and pressure people into responsibilities they should take. They are the ones who want RTO to exert control on their employees. They are the ones who "joke" you must take a half-day leave if you need to go before 6PM. They are the ones who openly shit on their employees (or other teams employees FWIW) because they're not benefiting them enough. They are not part of the team, they feel and act above everyone in it.

The second type, which I strive to be and most of my closest "manager friend" are, are servant-leaders. They want to get shit done by easing roadblocks and making technologically informed decisions. They understand that productivity is a consequence of a functional team and happy employees. They take on responsibility for mistakes and push the team towards finding solutions to prevent them. They understand that Life^TM^ is more important than work. They are an integral part of the team, they're not the boss but a full member with a different role and different responsibilities, like a PO or a data analyst.

As a tech lead first and a trained Scrum Master second, I feel much more comfortable in the second role. I help the team internally and report and manage external roadblocks with other teams. It's what I already know. I hate the hierarchical part of the job.

[–] 0x0@lemmy.zip 36 points 1 week ago

I had 2 such 2^nd^ type bosses in over 20 years.
You really notice they're how you described when they're gone - the deluge of shit begins almost immediately.

[–] makeshift0546@lemmy.today 13 points 1 week ago

This guy manages and gets it.

[–] HerbGrower@slrpnk.net 9 points 1 week ago

Most of my managers have been the second type, although how effective they are at it has varied a lot. Some are very passive and that has been good and bad, being left alone is great when things are going well. But when you need help they are useless.

The best have been the ones that know a decent amount about the job, they can either help you directly or know exactly where to point you for it. That or they understand the pain and you can both cry together for 4 days with a SQL database and increasingly vague error messages.

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[–] magnue@lemmy.world 27 points 1 week ago

Performative desk sitting is the worst. Got nothing to do so I have to just click on things.

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[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 91 points 1 week ago (2 children)

RTO work often is about control and not about cost or efficiency.

[–] Rolive@discuss.tchncs.de 61 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Or encouraging people to quit on their own. It's a lot cheaper than firing people.

[–] HerbGrower@slrpnk.net 25 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Quit my last job over being asked in once a week. It was the commute rather than the office that I really wanted to avoid but it was also an awful open plan hotdesk office for a company of hundreds of people I didn't know or care about.

New role is office based but I don't need to drive or take public transport and teams have their own rooms to work in. Much smaller company too, under 30 people. Banter is far better here and that helps quite a bit.

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[–] rozodru@piefed.world 18 points 1 week ago

Also because commercial landlords demanded it. In Canada the biggest push for it was from Oxford Properties. They even managed to get the Mayor of Toronto, Olivia Chow, who is about as liberal as we're gonna get up here to push for it. Never voting for that corporate shill again.

[–] protist@retrofed.com 84 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Here's the actual study if anyone cares to read it.

Skimming it, a couple things I noticed: This was a study of over 7,000 people across all departments at a large healthcare system. They found on-site workers skewed younger with shorter tenure and remote workers skewed older with longer tenure.

One potential pitfall: They didn't control in any way for department or role, and so floor nurses and housekeeping staff who must work fully on-site are being compared to tenured nurses working utilization review or revenue cycle staff whose job is billing/coding and who don't have to interact with anyone in their roles. In-person and remote jobs in healthcare tend to be very different jobs. I don't know how well this study could be generalized to other types of job settings based on this info

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[–] chunes@lemmy.world 61 points 1 week ago (6 children)

extroverts can't understand that not everyone is like them. more at 11

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 31 points 1 week ago

As an extrovert, please let me work from home. It'll save me a commute so I can spend more time with people I like

[–] random_character_a@lemmy.world 30 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Yeah. COVID lockdown was my golden era.

I secretly despised people at my company that wanted to demolish remote working completely after COVID on the pretence that people are traumaticed by the solitude and need to get back on the horse 100%.

Eventually only max. 30% remote was allowed and became company norm.

Even then some of these pieces of shit actually forbid remote working from their subordinates.

Those subordinates then gave them absolutely garbage employee reviews and made their worklife hell. Now they are in some other company torturing some other poor souls.

[–] stoly@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago

These are the same people who create useless team building exercises.

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[–] puppinstuff@lemmy.ca 58 points 1 week ago (6 children)

I can’t believe how much more I get done when I’m left alone and focused on the task at hand.

I don’t feel particularly isolated. Everybody is different but a once-week team chat and seasonal social lunches fill my cup.

Turns out when you can do errands and meet non-work friends for coffee as you please you don’t need to lean on your office family so much for connection and purpose.

[–] Dojan@pawb.social 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I have daily voice calls, usually several times a day.

Seems like my country has mostly moved back to offices now though and finding remote contracts is tough. Man I miss the pandemic. Not the death and suffering, just the compassion some people showed others. Sure there was a lot of people who just lost their minds entirely, but I feel like the overall sense of community was better back then.

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[–] Ghostwurm@lemmy.ca 45 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Whether it's a mix of control or egos, I think it is mostly about the fallacy that they are leaving unspent productivity on the table. Yet, COVID proved that people can be effective at home. It's nonsense to assume that you won't do the job and then somehow get paid for it. It's a strawman.

That is why, after all logical arguments were made, and bad faith responses dispelled, they chose to say it was about culture. That undefinable metric exist solely in the validation of HR and management. Pizza lunches, recognition events, and captive audiences.

[–] BillCheddar@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yes, and...

those in upper management need us to see them there, in front of us, IN CHARGE.

That's all it's about. They need you to kneel and scrape and fucking bow, and for that, you gotta sit in a car ten hours a week and work in an uncomfortable open-space cubicle where you can hear everything, including Betty from finance chewing.

All day, every day, so that Brent the VP can feed off your collective energy admiring him like he's a big shot. That's why he's the only asshole who wears a tie to an office of business casual colleagues.

[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 1 week ago

Can confirm. How Money Works talks about it (Here on YouTube) regarding the recent mass layoffs by big tech, first, by pressure through RTO mandates, then blaming layoffs on AI, only they got rid of too many people and their businesses couldn't run.

So why did they do it? Vindictiveness. Because of the great resignation during which workers had some negotiating power, and the C-suite resented that and wanted to show everyone who's boss.

I've been following the trend since the early 2010s when we realized that crunching development teams is useless for meeting deadlines, but dev companies crunch anyway, traumatizing the team.

I'm pretty sure billionaires aren't especially bright, rather started with generational wealth and then got richer through luck and ruthlessness, to the point that they only failed upwards. (There are a few exceptions who understand the social contract, but they really are exceptions.)

And they surround themselves with sycophants so that their psyches are completely comfortable. They stop actually considering data or news that might hurt their feelings, which means they make bad decisions that cost their companies money.

[–] DrCake@lemmy.world 30 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I’m all for as much remote work as possible, but I would love a study to include commute length and mode of transport. When I lived a 20 min walk from my office it was great and didn’t mind being at the office full time.

I moved away and it’s now a 30 min car drive which I really hate, a 1 hr bus journey, or 45 min bike ride.

I wouldn’t mind the bus journey so much, as I can read a book on my way, but the unreliability makes it feel so much worse.

And despite being longer than the drive, I much prefer to cycle into work, and I’ll usually do extra days in the office during the summer as an “excuse” to be on the bike.

[–] DrunkenPirate@feddit.org 12 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (6 children)

I‘ve read a study somewhere that compared car and bike commutes. I turned out that people were much happier riding bike and have real life interactions with people at the streets than sitting alone in an iron box and drive a car.

Despite this, having the same times as you, I enjoy riding bike more because the commute time is always the same. Nobody can stop you on a bike. No traffic jams, no accidents that blocks a road, no rush hour stress.

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[–] jballs@sh.itjust.works 29 points 1 week ago (4 children)

"I think flexibility is here to stay," she said.

This is the problem with academics. They do a study, find something is logically better, then assume humans will act logically.

Unfortunately, most CEOs don't give a shit if their employees are more happy, productive, and less likely to quit if they work remotely. They just want to feel like they have control over people's lives, which is why we're seeing more return to office initiatives.

[–] stoly@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

The point of the study is to generate knowledge, not to set policy.

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[–] kerrybun@nord.pub 22 points 1 week ago (3 children)

When we got a new CEO one of the first things he mandated was RTO. He said the alternative was to shut the office down, and that he was fine with that (I highly doubt that) but a decision had to be made. And so RTO it was, because that had better vibes or something. It's fascinating, the leadership has during several meetings mentioned how much nicer it is now that people are in the office, but none of the "grunts" I've spoken to like it.

[–] CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 21 points 1 week ago

HR drone always talks about how nice it is to see everyone collaborating in the office when we come in for quarterly meetings.

Nobody is getting work done. We’re all “collaborating” about sportsball or coffee machines or whatever it is, or just trying to tune it out. It’s a full day of productivity lost for nearly everyone there. Not to mention the early rise for a commute, cost of the commute, missed workouts, and exhaustion on the return home.

[–] m4ylame0wecm@lemmy.zip 12 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Yeah, we're in a similar boat with new CEO, RTO, etc. The increased collaboration is amazing: now instead of video calls, we have in-person in a cubical video calls because our team and department is scattered across multiple physical locations. Additionally, the increased collaboration from non-team "pop-ins" is a much-needed break from doing the work we're brought in to do. Not tomention, all of the systems we manage are now much closer in case of emergency: colocated the same 50+ miles away or "cloud". Maybe /s maybe I'm pro-CEO.

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[–] adhdsergio@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Our CEO started talking of RTO while he himself was at home, not even a Teams background to try and hide it. Haven't seen him in any office during any of the subsequent townhall meetings either. He's just one twunt in a massive circlejerk

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[–] jtrek@startrek.website 22 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Management are assholes and idiots.

Nothing will get better without demands. People need to organize.

But if I've learned anything from history, it's that the ownership class would rather murder all of their employees than give a few dollars more a day.

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[–] garretble@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

I'm very fortunate to have a job with a very small company (literally 4 people) where we get to set the rules.

It is funny to see the ingrained notion we (collective "we") once had that working from home could never work. I started this job in 2018, and I often suggested we do a work from home day each week since we all had laptops. My bosses (co-owners of this company) always shot it down. "Oh we'd never get any work done!"

Then, of course, COVID. And while I certainly would rather COVID not have happened, it did convince them that working from actually works. And, of course, they loved it as well. So since 2020 I have not had to go back to the office. We still have office space for some minor things, and once in a blue moon we might gather there. But in six years I've probably spent six days in the office.

Heck, I'm fortunate enough to finally have convinced them we should take Fridays off, too. We piloted that program two years ago over the summer, and it, of course, stuck because everyone likes that—though we actually just take every-other Friday off. But still. Hard to beat.

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[–] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago (2 children)

They signed a 20-year lease 10 years ago so they feel like they have to use the building.

Source: wild assumptions, i know nothing about commercial real estate.

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[–] underscores@lemmy.zip 16 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

I worked on site for 4 months before my remote work was approved and it was literally the most unfulfilling life I had

I would work 9 to 630, come home so tired that all I could do is throw something quick to eat and watch TV (didn't process what I was watching) then later fall asleep and rinse and repeat

How anyone is able to do this lifestyle is a testament to humanity's ability to adapt

Working culture is fucked up and needs to change

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[–] SabinStargem@lemmy.today 13 points 1 week ago

Capitalism as we know it, isn't about effectiveness nor efficiency, it is primarily about power. So long as this remains the case, workers will continue to be abused for the amusement of the higher ups.

[–] DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

Employers don't care if you're happy at work, they just need to lord over you.

[–] stumu415@lemmy.zip 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

If they would get rid of these terrible open plan offices, where people can hear the silent fart you try to squeeze out gently, and go back to offices where you at least would have a smidgen of privacy, this would improve office attendance.

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[–] melsaskca@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 week ago

It's like the study itself became an expert in the obvious.

[–] IcePee@lemmy.beru.co 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

A couple of important caveats:

Still, Johnson said face-to-face interaction can play an important role in helping coworkers build relationships, especially if they are just starting out in their careers.

"Remote works better after you know people," she said. "So there is still a benefit of having some face time."

So, it does rather beg the question, what should one do if someone is joining an existing team?

[–] eicker@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Based on two decades of experience: As a general rule, there should be regular in-person team events (around two a year and just for fun). In addition, there should be joint training sessions (also around two a year). New staff members require a great deal of attention from their team, both at these events and when working remotely, particularly at the outset.

[–] brainzzz@piefed.world 7 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Also if there's an option to go to the office, that works too. I'd like to have an office to go to once a month or less, just for the social, meet people irl, etc, but wouldn't give up remote work for it.

In your experience, have any online social things worked well? We're always looking out for stuff where I am.

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[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 week ago

it does rather beg the question

Nope. It just raises the question.

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[–] EowynCarter@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

Hybrid mode do me well.

Allows to have the advantages that on site have ( real contact with the collegues ) while allowing to take a breath from transportation.

[–] lemmyng@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago
[–] Lanske@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

I love working from home especially the not having to dash into the car and drive there amongst angry drivers

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